Collaborative Problem Solving

Also, the New Jersey Center for Tourette Syndrome and Associated Disorders. And its directors and employees assume no responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, objectivity, or usefulness of the information presented here today. We do not endorse any recommendation or opinion made by any member or physician nor do we advocate any treatment. You are responsible for your own medical decisions. 0:58 Now it really is truly my pleasure to introduce doctor Jeremy Lichtman. 1:03 Doctor …, director of Jeremy Lichtman CBT, uses a cognitive behavioral approach to therapy and specializes in treating Tourette syndrome, OCD, ADHD, Anxiety, and Depression. 1:16 Doctor Lipman also runs our parents support group, I’m happy to say. And our next one is on July 13th at 8 0 PM. 1:23 Doctor …, I will now turn the session over to you. Thank you so much for being here and presenting on collaborative problem solving. 1:29 Thank you so much. Excited to be here. 1:33 OK, collaborative problem solving. 1:36 What is it? 1:38 Basically, collaborate. 1:39 Problem solving is a treatment that was designed for helping children. You became part of your screen is not being seen, all of it. It’s not being senior presentation. 1:50 I don’t know what. What’s not showing. 1:52 I can only see T I V out. 1:55 just the last four letters of your presentation, I know. 2:00 Why that now? 2:06 No, OK. Let me see, sorry, everyone. 2:14 What about now? 2:16 Now, now, we can see you. Thank you so much. You can stop now. 2:20 Perfect plasma mm, OK. 2:25 Right, So, collaborative problem solving: So, this is a treatment that was designed for children, families, in school, for helping the children with behavioral difficulties, and then, before I jump in, kinda talk all about it, I’m going to read a short vignette. 2:44 As you think about, you know, how you would help this child, this student. 2:50 Um, and when I’m done with the presentation, I’m going to read it again. 2:54 I’m going to ask you the same question to think about how you a helpless child and maybe it will have changed, maybe not. 3:03 OK, every time Johnny comes into class after Jim, he thinks the agitated, scowling, moving with short tense motion. 3:12 The moment he sits down in the classroom, he puts his head down. 3:16 Well, he does stay quiet when the teacher teach it. 3:19 You’ll usually keep it head down until the boundary. 3:23 If you have given work to complete, you will ignore it. 3:26 If he, if he had explicitly asked to do something, you’ll either ignore it or sometimes respond angrily. 3:32 Like, I’m not doing this stupid assignment. 3:36 Will lead to an F deletion if he’s not ignored, or if other units laugh at him when they’ve had How would you help John? 3:47 Yeah? 3:50 OK, so our agenda for today, um, I’m going to start with a brief overview of the types of challenges that are collaborative problem solving oclock CPS a lot was designed for. 4:04 Um, the reason I’m going to be going into that is, um, collaborative problem solving is a little bit of a study in contract from some of the more traditional approach it then we’re going to talk about the goals of collaborative problem solving. 4:17 The three plan, the collaborative problem solving, how it views different ways of approaching problems. And then plan B, which is the way that collaborative problem solving approaches challenging behaviors. 4:31 So first, in terms of the types of the diagnoses, or challenges that you’re designing for. 4:37 So the diagnoses are oppositional, defiant disorder, …, these are the kids who just don’t listen. You say fit, they stand, use, they stay there. 4:49 Conduct disorder. So these are kids with those same kind of oppositional tendencies, but a little more cruelty of meanness on time. Right? 4:57 Um, depression. You might be wondering, why is depression here at the behavioral disorder? The reason is that younger kids often expressed depression through. 5:10 Behavioral challenges, actually, Intermittent explosive disorder. 5:15 So, these are K two, something sets them off, sometimes you’ll know what it is, sometimes not. They explode. 5:23 And that explosion, yelling, screaming cancer, me, hitting, fighting, throwing thing can last five minutes to build an hour maybe. 5:32 And then, like, it seems to just disappear, and often these can do feel very there. 5:36 Remorseful, um, Autism Spectrum Disorder, ASD rates in either K two have difficulties with picking up on social cues and, you know, rigidity difficulty with acting within the expected behavioral balance often. 5:53 Then ADHD, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, right. So these are K to a really impulsive right, Right. Those kinda kid. 6:03 And often that can be, you know, disruptive in and of itself, but also, you know, if they’re redirected or corrected often there can be a lot of frustration or anger that might come after that. 6:14 So these are the kinds of diagnoses or challenges that we’re looking at when we talked about, you know, collaborative problem solving, and who which meant to help. 6:23 Though, in terms of the traditional responses basically, they are designed around this idea of Gallia incentivize the kid. 6:34 You know, if we give them enough, pay them enough money, right? 6:37 They’ll do what we, And so, typically, right, you know, you’ll teach the therapist, I’ll teach parents. Teach teachers how to create reward system thinking, or problematic behaviors, reward, good ones, et cetera. 6:52 Now, here’s the thing. 6:54 I love these traditional approaches. 6:58 I really, really do. 7:00 And they work. 7:01 There are decades of research showing that these work. 7:06 So now you might be asking yourself, why are we talking about collaborative problem solving, and not some of these more traditional responses? 7:14 And there are 2, 1, a lot of these treatments lack substantial benefit for many treat, many children, right? They don’t work 100% for all true children, children. They don’t work at all. 7:31 And so what does it mean, Right? 7:33 Like any good, you know, thinkers, scientists, write, we want to have lots of tools in our toolbox. 7:40 And so we need alternative treatments that may better help. Some of these kids, frequently, traditional approaches, don’t work. 7:50 So what that means is we would really want to think about why? 7:54 Why do these traditional approaches work, for so many kids, What might be going on? 8:01 And so to help us begin to answer that question, I’m going to bring the creator of Collaborator probably felt like himself. 8:07 Doctor Ross Green cannot action here in person, obviously. 8:13 Though this is a YouTube video that I’m going to play for you, I believe it should work found. 8:17 Why for everyone, or at least most of you, If anyone is having any trouble, I left the URL Code, right there on the bottom. 8:26 So you can just mute me, copy the code into, into your, your web browser, and follow it there, if it’s not working. And so I’ll wait 15 to NaN after it’s done before I start talking again. 8:43 I think if you’re working with kids in general, over challenging kids, in particular, you need a velocity, who is this good, too bad, but you have to face up to anything because your senior philosophy has been to guide your actions, especially when the going gets tough. 9:00 No philosophy. 9:02 No, God. 9:06 The most important theme of collaborative problem solving, is this one. 9:11 Do elephant cancer. 9:14 Now, nobody falls off that share the same. Kids do all they can, only an earth shattering philosophy. 9:20 If you consider one more popular alternative philosophy, the floats around out there are call Kids do all they want. 9:29 Now, kids, you also can, kids go if they want to completely different velocities, what’s the different ramifications? 9:38 But what can we do to, or with this kid, to make things better? Let’s think about kids do all off they want that for a second. 9:45 If you’ve got kids, do all of them, want mentality, and you’re working with a kid who’s not doing well and the reason you think he’s not doing well by virtue of their philosophy, it’s because he doesn’t wanna. 9:56 I’ve been thinking about Kids’ juana for a long time. 10:00 Here’s the conclusion I’ve come up with About Kids do often want, as long Flat out, dead wrong. 10:10 I asked myself, why would I need to not want to do well? 10:15 All of us do the best we can in the circumstances we find ourselves in. 10:20 While the kids do also want to mentality, has those questions covered with concepts like secondary gain, attention seeking, motivating, coercive, limit testing. 10:33 We’re going to have the babies put to bed by around 11 0 AM this morning. 10:39 When you really think about them, they don’t make much sense when you really put them to the test. 10:45 They don’t make a great deal of sense, but they do make sense. 10:50 Even if can do all of that. one is right. 10:54 And now, you know, I think it’s wrong. 10:57 It’s narrow. 10:58 Because you see it greatly narrows the role in the life of a kid who’s not doing well. Because if you think a kid isn’t doing well, because this is what, I can only think one of the things you can do, one role to play in the life of this kid, may get one. 11:13 And we have the technology for making kids wanna. 11:17 How do you make a kid want, you reward the behaviors, you like, Can you punish the behaviors? 11:22 You know, you give them the incentive to do well, based on the belief that you didn’t have the incentive to do well in the first place. And you are now in the business of making kids wanna. 11:34 I sure hope you’re right about why he’s not doing well. 11:40 Cause if you’re wrong, and they’re busy making a kid want, and he already does one. 11:48 You run the risk of making things worse, or at the very least, pumping is helpful as you might have wanted to be. 11:58 Kids do all of that can, God. 12:01 I think if this kid could do what could be well, it wouldn’t do well. 12:06 Something must be getting in his way. Your role just changed. 12:10 Your role does change, You’ve just left from kid isn’t doing well, because it doesn’t wanna, and therefore thinking that your role in the life of this kinda stopped making water something a lot harder. 12:24 And in my experience, a lot more productive. 12:27 You’ve just shifted to kids, do all of that. 12:29 Can, What’s your main role now? 12:33 What’s getting in his way? 12:35 You can help them. 12:37 You can’t help them if you don’t know what’s getting them as well. 12:40 Yeah, you can do with challenging kids to finally mole asking the person figures out what’s getting in his way? 12:49 You see, it’s still challenging. 12:53 Friendship fire bed. 12:54 Nobody’s figured it out yet. 12:57 A key theme of collaborative problem solving, the key philosophy, if you remember nothing else from everything I say. 13:04 I hope remember, this kid couldn’t do well, OK, What do well because kids do all if they can. 13:13 Alright. Go away in another 20 or NaN for anyone who may be watching the video on YouTube. 13:38 OK, awkward silence over. 13:41 And they want to take a deep breath, Let out of the breath that they were who they were all OK Um, Kids do well if they can. 13:54 Kids do well if they can. 13:57 What A powerful idea, and I agree with doctor Green there, if you walk out with nothing else than a presentation, kids do well if they can, because if nothing else will allow you to connect so much more with the children in your life. 14:15 So, with that in mind, let’s talk about the goals of intervention from a client or problem solving perspective, and there’s three main goals. 14:25 First, dramatically reduce the challenging behaviors. 14:31 Let’s get those two in less. 14:34 two, help adults perceive their expectation. 14:40 That may seem obvious, But as we get a law move along and we get to the first step of Plan B, a lot of adults might be like, wait, let me know what we need as the adults and the parents and the teachers as adopted, right? 14:53 So it’s really important to recognize that. This is a key goal of collaborative problem solving, helping adults perceive their vacation. 15:01 And laugh is teach cognitive skills that are lacking, right? So this gets to what doctor Greene was saying, at the end of it. Once we change your attitude, your kids dwells, we can. 15:12 Now, we need to understand why they aren’t, what’s getting in the way active cognitive skill. 15:19 And the idea is that when kids are having behavioral difficulties, explosive behaviors, according to the philosophy of collaborative problem solving, is that there is a brick wall that is being hit between the expectations of the adult, the parents, the teachers in their lives, and their capability. 15:40 And think that if you’re trying to get through some where you’re sitting in traffic and you just want to get somewhere, what happens? Anger starts to rise. 15:46 Right, Hugging, yelling, screaming, all of that stuff that we teach our kids that they shouldn’t do, that we all do when we’re in the car. 15:56 So, what are the lagging skills, though? There are five kind of lagging skills that we look at. 16:01 There’s what’s called executive skills or executive functioning skills. These are the skills to help us organize information. People follow direction. 16:09 Language processing skill. 16:11 These are skills that allow us to understand what people are saying to us and parse the information as well as communicate effectively, what we’re thinking feeling doing, etcetera. 16:23 Emotion regulation skills. The ability to recognize our own emotions and self soothe and tolerate stress. 16:32 The cognitive flexibility skills, So, these are the skills that are involved. 16:36 And so being able to shift task, right? Move from one thing to another. 16:41 Then the last is social scale: the ability to pick up on the social world around us, and act effectively within that world, right. 16:48 And so, the idea that kids with explosive behaviors are lacking one or more of those key skills. 16:58 Oh. 17:00 The three plan of collaborative problem solving, I imagine, right. Collaborative problem solving is a little bit of a study in contrast. 17:09 So the only one that’s CPF plan is plan B, But we have to understand plan A and plan C for. 17:16 What is Plan A Say a is when we are the adult adult. Insist that our expectations be met. 17:24 Go to bed your dinner. Do your homework, with six, still in class. Re raise your hand when you want to talk. 17:31 Right? Don’t hit the other kid. 17:35 Oh, reasonable thing. 17:38 But the problem is the type of kids that we’re talking about here … 17:43 tends to intensify those explosive behaviors, right? 17:48 Because we’re asking kids to do something, they are not capable in that moment of DOE. 17:55 That. 17:57 So we need to ask yourself, can they can meet these expectations? 18:01 Now, can you play planning Time, we’re done with this presentation, a 30 year, never going to play again. 18:08 Absolutely, well, we will, but no plan. 18:11 Plan C, plan, C I like to think of that Dudley parody. 18:18 So for anyone who has read the Harry Potter series, Harry Potter Covey Dudley is a real spoiled brat. 18:27 There was a scene in the first chapter of the first the second chapter, sorry. 18:31 Where Dudley is sitting at the Kitchen Deal, counting the mound of presence sitting on top of the table for his birthday. 18:42 You’ve counting them, yes, like number 36. And then he goes, Last year, I got 37. 18:48 And if F, N, petunia’s mother harried at and peculiar, know this is Ingrid! Starts to arrive and to stop a tantrum from happening. She immediately jumped in and we’re gonna get you to try things. 19:04 Now you’re going to have 39 and he comes down, remove any expectation fidelity to be able to tolerate having left. 19:14 So Plain C is really, really good at reducing the local level of frustration invites. 19:21 However, parent expectations are not being met and the child is not learning any skills. 19:30 What we need is, we need something different. 19:34 We need a way of helping meet both parents’ expectations and helping the child. 19:40 And that’s planned. 19:42 Plan B involves working collaboratively with the child to develop a mutually satisfactory solution to an unsolved problem. 19:51 An unsolved problem is basically the idea is that problems are predictable right when we actually are, if we carefully will know where the brick walls are, right? 20:03 And so we have these unsolved problems, and by resolving these factors, right, child or adult, right? 20:10 They’re interfering with the expectation working with the church. 20:18 So that’s all well and good, that. 20:23 Becky sorry, it’s a real quick look at a handy dandy charted about what’s being achieved by the different plant wheat planted acres to expectations, maybe if it’s working. 20:34 Plan to reduce outburst probably going to do that. 20:37 Plan B will be doing all three, reducing out birth, pursuing expectation and teaching the child. 20:46 So how do we do that? 20:48 How do we achieve this wonderful wonderful trifecta of meeting parent expectations, reducing outburst and teaching skills? 21:00 So it starts with the idea that in Plan B and the adult, we are the surrogate frontal, We’re going to be modeling and teaching flexibility, frustration tolerance, problem solving skill. 21:16 And the goals that are being accomplished by acting as a surrogate frontal lobe, right? So the frontal lobe in the part of the brain that’s responsible for executive functioning, decision making. All of that higher level thinking skills that these children often lacking. 21:30 one, it helps walk the child through the situation, the frustrating situation in the present. So we’ll get a little bit more into that, too. 21:40 By solving these problems routinely were also precipitated, right? we are stopping beforehand, explosive behaviors or the explosive episodes from happening, right? We’re coming up with a plan, redoing it beforehand. 21:55 And with multiple, also with multiple repetition rate, we’re teaching these lacking cognitive skills. 22:02 Actually, we will need to be the surrogate frontal lobe anymore. 22:06 As I said before, right, unsolved problems are that predictable, right? 22:11 So Plan B is a pro active treatment. 22:14 Right? We’re not jumping in the middle of an outburst him, Sandy. We are recognizing we’re doing, we’re doing some detective work to just to figure out what are the lacking skills? 22:24 What an unsolved problem then working proactively with the child? 22:31 It’s a plan B if consisted of three steps. 22:35 Empathy, find the problem. 22:38 The invitation. 22:40 So we’re gonna get to really, really nitty gritty details, all of these in just a moment. 22:45 But before we do, get some other basic ingredients to think about, that, we need to keep in mind, when we’re doing a plan, B, collaborative problem solving discussion. 22:55 one, both parties need to remain calm. 22:59 Can’t have a plan B discussion when everyone’s yelling at each other. 23:03 Alright, so that means, add the adults, you have to make sure that you’re in a place where you can hear uncomfortable, information, things that you might not like, and keep your cool, um, we need to ensure that the both parties are, and that’s a concern of both parties. There are clearly defined in Cassandra. So what this means is that right, within that, to get really, really clear about what you’re getting in the way for the child, via the empathy step to get into, and what is going on for the parents, via the, define the problem step. 23:38 We also want to make sure that when we get to meet the invitations, actually coming up with solutions, we’re going to be willing to entertain a wine, possible set of solutions that address both the parent and the child concerns. Right? And so, these ingredients are captured in these three steps. Empathy, define the problem, An invitation. 24:01 Um, two quick things to keep in mind with collaborative problem solving, is that, we don’t need to get all three of these steps down in one gal. As a parent, you don’t need to sit down to all three. 24:13 You know what, I’m done? 24:15 We’ll talk a little bit more about this, but sometimes you just, the goal at the beginning is just to get your kid to start talking, just to get the child to start talking with you about what is going on for them. 24:27 And the last thing before we move on in these steps need to be done in water. 24:32 It’s a lot of times when I do collaborative problem solving with families, we have a great session everyone onboard, right, they practice at home, they come back and didn’t work. 24:42 one of the things I always ask if well, what order did you do it in the fact that they are just like, I started attending the why of the problem that they’re exploding. 24:52 If the MSC, if they’re like Why did I do it first? No. 24:57 The order is really important here. 25:03 OK, so step one, empathy, so the goals of the empathy step, ARR, develop, the clearer sense possible of what the child’s concerns are for their perspective, and have the child feel listened to, and therefore comfortable enough to start talking. 25:24 Basically, when I teach parents, had to do the empathy step, I’m teaching them how to be minnies best, right. 25:33 In order to be a good therapist, I need my clients. 25:38 My clients need to know that I care about what they’re saying and that they’re not going to be judged, and that they’re not gonna be kicked out, and then that can be told why they’re wrong. 25:48 I have horseracing, some of my clients, where they left off therapies, because that’s exactly what we’re going. 25:56 And that’s keenly goes on in the life of a child, their concerns are relegated to, you’re just a little kid. 26:04 Right, Well, we’re not consciously doing that, but we’re doing it all the time. 26:10 We’re busy lives, and we need things done. 26:12 But what that means is that our kids are not feeling heard, and they often are so afraid to bring up what’s going on for them, their fears, right, what they’re worried about. Because they believe that they’re not going to be listened to. 26:23 And in fact, they will get in trouble if they share what is bothering them. 26:28 In fact, it’s one of the thing that, when I start with a new child, when I do my intake, I have a few rules, and one of the rules I tell every kid I work with is that no matter what they share with me, in my office, they can not get in trouble for it. 26:44 They’re not going to share if they believe they’re going to get in trouble. 26:49 The how do we do it? It’s nice and good. 26:50 Say, All right, let’s be really empathetic, And Let’s hear what the child has to say, But, now, we know how to do it. 26:58 And what it is, is we start with a neutral observation, followed by a very, very simple to work clashed. 27:08 What’s that? 27:11 So, for example, say the parent, node, That’s the client I have, talking to their child. I’ve noticed that when you’re told, you can’t have a play date. 27:23 You seem to get upset, and start to say that you never get what you want. 27:30 What’s up? 27:32 Those two words can change a child’s life. 27:40 It doesn’t stop there. 27:43 We need to keep asking questions until we add the don’ts, have a clear sense of what is going. 27:52 Right, who, what, where, when, Who is causing a problem for them, where it’s over at home, what is going on? 28:00 And so the way we get the answers to these questions, we ask clarifying questions. 28:06 How Selle, I don’t understand. 28:10 Could you share a little bit more about that? 28:13 Gentle, open ended question, that’s why whatsapp is so powerful right. 28:21 There is no designation. 28:23 It is the ocean. 28:25 And for a kid to feel hurt we need to give them the space to fill in what is going on, right to open ended chantel. 28:36 We also want to look at the relevant environment of circumstances. Right? Where is it happening? 28:43 What is different about the environment? 28:47 Sometimes, it can be, it’s about the bedroom with the living room. 28:49 It’s school, with the bus, with the car, right? 28:53 All think we need to try it out to stand. 28:57 We also want to break what the child say up to us into component, right? To how we want to try to understand it, right? When X happens, right? You know, when, you know, you say, you can’t have a play date. You think why, right? You know, so here, the child might be sharing what they’re thinking, Which leads to Q, so in their emotions and certain behavior. 29:20 And the reason we wanna wait with the break into components, we want to keep thinking, right? What is it? 29:28 we don’t yet understand that? 29:34 Really important, if we want to know the thought, the child is happy. And I don’t think it’s more important than the feeling, because the thoughts are more important than feeling. They are absolutely not. 29:45 But we’re already addressing the feelings by being gentle by having empathy. 29:52 We want to get a sense of the song, Right? We need to understand how a child, looking at an understanding of circumstance or situation, is going to color how they feel the color and affect housing. 30:06 The other, keep active to keep in mind. 30:08 You want to stay with an empathy step into your pretty short. 30:12 You have a good understanding of the child’s concern. 30:18 So when you’re asking a question, you’re also listening to the answers, both so you can understand. 30:24 And so the child, again, I know I keep saying it, because as a child, to feel. 30:31 Does that mean can’t be mechanical? 30:34 We can’t rush it. 30:36 And so sometimes, this step, the empathy, it’s all you can do in a single city. 30:43 And that’s OK. 30:46 Right? 30:47 That’s, oh, OK. 30:52 Sometimes you might need to do it more than once, just the empathy for them. 30:56 Tell a child feels heard. 30:58 They’re not going to be able to work on solving a problem, Right? I have a highly behavioral therapist, I’m solution oriented. And I do not start trying to solve problems with my client until they, until I believe, and they’ve shared that they feel safe. 31:15 So what are some of the situations where we might just stick with the empathy theft, and that was off? 31:20 Well, that’s based on the child’s responses. 31:23 The word is impossible, Chakra. 31:28 Maybe we get an answer. That’s all. That’s what we want. 31:33 Here’s the thing. 31:34 Nine out of ten times on the first go, you’re not going to get an answer. 31:39 Maybe you’ll get silence and down, maybe with a slight childers drug, maybe you’ll get a, you know, you’ll get lucky, you’ll get a more verbal and now. 31:52 one of my favorites, that patron do for me. 31:56 Always have to wonder if it’s really not for the child, but that’s a popular response, Right? 32:00 Um, or you get defensive, right? This is stupid, right. 32:04 This is not a problem for me, OK? 32:07 So, let’s think for a second about what the possible responses might be. 32:11 So, is the silence in the, I don’t know. 32:14 He really, you might not know. 32:17 You really might not yet know what is going on for him. That’s why this emphasis episode, where we are there, and the third gate front, to look to help the child understand his own behavior thoughts. 32:29 That requires patience. 32:33 You may not know how to respond. 32:35 Maybe this child or your child, this student, has never been asked this before. It’s always been, you need to, why you, you knew that. 32:44 Never what is going on for you when this happens? 32:50 Maybe you need it broken down into smaller parts, right? 32:53 To fully understand, again, some of the Latin cognitive skills, maybe he needs what we’re sharing at the problem. The first observation were broken up into smaller parts. 33:03 Maybe you just need some time to think. 33:08 At a certain point with the silences of the I don’t know That’s not a problem of me. 33:13 You can start making some educated guesses. 33:16 My process of testing, it’s super important when you do that that you remain Mitra. 33:26 And you’re willing and ready to retract what your idea was if the child denied it. 33:34 We’re not here in the empty step to tell a child what do you thinking? What do you feeling? 33:39 Right. 33:39 We’re here to understand from the child, and sometimes they might need help with anything. You know, when you had that reaction, you know, it looked like you were really angry, and you said, I wasn’t angry. 33:51 Alright, let’s try again to for wasn’t anger. 33:53 You know, whether maybe sadness, maybe frustration, right? 33:58 Give the child. Let them know that you’re not insisting. 34:02 And for defensiveness, by the way, info about the concern right there, right, this is information. 34:10 Lock it up and be prepared to give reassurance, right then, if not, no moving straight into no telling him what to do. 34:21 I’m not saying, what do you do your non tribal right? That is the big thing with defensiveness is we need to be ready to attract you to tell you what to do right now to understand. 34:32 Then lastly, we end the step with a re emphasis, the child’s concern. 34:41 So you’re upset because you feel that everyone else in the family gets what they want all the time. You never get what you. 34:48 Think about that for a second. 34:50 Whether or not it’s true, If a child believe that everyone else in the family get what they want and they never adeel, of course, they’re going to feel horrible if they don’t have the skills to effectively communicate that. 35:05 What are they left with? But explode. 35:12 Lot of time spent on the empathy step. 35:14 But that’s because if if doke though. 35:21 What are some common impediments? 35:24 The one is perception that plenty of capitulation, right? So many of the parents I work with when they hear me talking about it. 35:31 Especially the embassy staff, I’m just giving in to my kid, and here’s the thing. 35:36 It’s not plan B the MC step, and neither agreement or disagreement. 35:42 It’s a way to keep the child calm and ensure his concerns are not capitulation, we’ll get into soon. Even worth the wine is not the case. 35:54 That’s really important. As adults, we’re going in with our hackles Raved, ready to be told me, you know, like, you know, just like, we’re not going to functional alignment. 36:06 Another one to view the assumption, right? 36:08 So this often indicates when, you know, we come from our own experience and this is like, we’re really hurts in the best place, right, but we’re using our own experiences, right? 36:17 Something like, I didn’t really like my food, the food that my mom cooks in the either, right? To life, they’re the fighter on eating dinner, right? 36:25 But maybe he’s not eating because the stomach hurts. 36:29 After the bus ride home from school, it doesn’t kill the type of food, right? Well, we’re assuming that we know how the child is feeling right? 36:36 You must be feeling very angry, but maybe he’s actually feeling really sad. 36:41 So we have to be careful with assumption. 36:45 Poorness of tone, being belittling, angry, sarcastic, right, I’ll go into that Paris practice in front of a mirror, the tone that they use that, and either record themself. 36:58 A lot of the empathy to segue into planning. 37:01 Right, so, he’s right. Notice that you frame the cabinets in the kitchen when you’re looking for food. That is unacceptable way to let us know you’re hungry. 37:11 Those are some of the coming in. 37:17 Empathy step done, You’re a rock star, you gotta keep feels heard, narrow until the define the problem. 37:24 And the goal of this step, it can hear that, as you do your concerns are presented, How we do it? 37:36 We share, we’re going on it, The thing is, using the example from before, we already had, planned, when you have the plate. Or my concern is that you’ll become fed when your friends have to leave and then you take that out on your system, right? This is why it’s a problem for you guys at the Adult Child, does need to hear this. Because if the child, The mere how are they supposed to help you come up with a solution? 38:01 How are you supposed to help them write one that addresses both the child’s concerns and your concerns? 38:10 What are some of the common impediments? 38:13 That some of the common impediment of some of the company penrith, a R one dueling solutions. 38:21 So this is the idea that when we express our concerns to the child, would not expressing them as concerns. 38:27 But that demand, know, the thing is we already have plans. 38:31 When you have to have that plate, it is, well, we actually have to **** it. 38:38 And often that will lead the child to double down on what they want. And no one can hear each other dueling solution as opposed to searching for a mutually satisfactory collaborative. 38:50 Lack of clarity, right, so does the kid that your kid understand what you’re asking, what your site? 38:56 So remember, this is an iterative process. 38:59 You’re probably not going to get it right on your first draft. 39:02 And if, and if the problem is that your child, the kid, doesn’t understand your concern, or you weren’t clear about it, that’s going to come up. When you use Plan B, the next time on the unsolved problem, can this they understand it? The solution probably isn’t going to work, isn’t going to come up when you, when you try it and it doesn’t. 39:23 Last possible, the kid doesn’t care. 39:26 Here’s the thing. 39:28 He doesn’t have to. 39:31 The kid doesn’t need to share your concerns. 39:34 You do need to hear his concerns and actually care as the adults in the room. 39:38 He doesn’t need to, but he does need to recognize them as part of the problem solving, which leads to the last step. 39:47 The invitation. 39:50 So, the goal of the invitation is to brainstorm together as solution that is realistic and will meet the concern that both parties it will be mutually satisfactory. 40:03 Alright, go into the concerns and be mutually satisfactory. 40:09 So, for example, going back to the the, um, so how did that work that? 40:17 Alright, so, sorry, Gayla confused with my notes. 40:20 I apologize that the way this works, is that, right? 40:25 If you look at the how to route, it starts with a recap of both concerns, right, that you feel like everyone else in the family always gets what they want, You never get anything that you want, you get bored. 40:40 Meanwhile, the parents worry that we have planned, that we have already committed to, whether you become upset, when your friends leave, and that you will take it out in your system. 40:50 I wonder if there was a way we can make sure you feel that you can get what you want if you listen to. 40:56 But also, keep your commitment and that. 41:00 And also keep, and we can keep a commitment and help you stay calm when you have play dates and your friends leave. 41:10 So, here are some important points about that. 41:13 How did that actually does the first? 41:17 If we want to let the child had the first stab a stab at solving the problem, right? 41:21 Ask them if they have any idea, right, What you guys are going to be doing, I often teach parents to kind of go back and forth. 41:28 Each one comes up with an idea, right, and you’re keeping track of all the idea, and you’re not even going to look at how good or bad any of the ideas are at first. 41:38 You’re going to try to create a comprehensive list and as many possible ideas as possible. 41:44 And, if the child, by the way, doesn’t have any possible solutions, right? You can say, you know, maybe I have some thoughts. You know I’m going to share them. 41:56 Laying the king know that you’re solving with him, right? If things are going off track. Or you want to return and we emphasize that you can send already noted, right? 42:07 Always return to the to conserve the child in yours if you feel like things are going off track. 42:14 that. 42:16 And then, we want to end with an agreement that we’re pretty sure, 60 to 70% chance of working. 42:28 How do you know that? You’re not going to know that perfectly. 42:31 That’s what we’re looking for. is a 60 or 70% chance of it going to work. 42:37 And so, what happens after, you know, you come up with cicely, if you come up with a solution, right, You have a whole list. 42:44 You go through them and you say which one do you think are going to work or not, right? And then you pick one, and you give it a shot. 42:51 And you agree to have to return to the conversation, to have another plan B conversation in a week, a few days, to see how it goes. 43:00 That’s really, really important. 43:04 Yeah, I have to see how it goes. 43:10 So, what are some of the things that get in the way here? 43:15 So, one, parents don’t return to play. 43:20 Maybe we’re tired. 43:23 Maybe we’re frustrated. 43:25 Maybe we’ll believe the child can come up with an adequate solution. 43:32 We need to be aware of the adults not returning to play. We tried to play any traction. 43:39 we’ve gained with the kid, they’re going to shut down, back to square one. 43:45 What is the difficulty with generating solutions? 43:49 The lack of back to what I was saying, that, you know, you just tried to come up with as many as possible, and you come up with some silly ones, right? When I work with family, the non target, the process, I’ll often, we’ll come up with a solution, so that played a one. 44:03 Maybe I’ll say something like, no. 44:06 Maybe, you know, John, you get to have friends over whenever he wants or his best friend. Just think over always, we never have to leave. 44:13 He has a friend all the time, not gonna dig out on the right problem solve. 44:18 Um, and every new, you know, that’s really jokey, it breaks the ice a little bit and it allows ideas to start flowing. 44:30 That. 44:33 Right, unrealistic solutions, right? 44:35 That’s another possible impediment Rates are not feasible and not mutually satisfactory. 44:41 So here, right? If it’s not feasible at you as a parent, you might want to say, well, here’s an idea, but not sure. 44:48 I or you we will do our part. You’re apart a lot of the time. Let’s see if we can look at some of the others. 44:56 Not mutually satisfactory. And you might want to say something like, that solution works for you. 45:01 That wouldn’t work well for me. Let’s see if we can look at some of the others. Become. 45:07 They’re against the goal, right? 45:09 In using the three step process, empathy, find the problem. 45:16 The invitation, if that child’s concerns are noted, and that Harris concerns are noted in that, and we’re teaching the lagging skills, you live executive functioning skills, right, when we’re increasing the child’s ability for playful thinking. And he can also be his own triggers and developed solution. 45:37 Language Prop, I think, right. 45:40 Learns appropriate emotional expression, dilution regulation. 45:46 Reduction in the difficulty the child will learn how to self soothe and will learn that not every situation going to lead to them being completely ignore. Do not listen to him, and they don’t need to explore. 45:58 We didn’t know, where did you get their emotions recognize the empathy step there. 46:02 Again, that’s very soothing. 46:06 Increase their ability to think. I left black and white, and intense ways. 46:11 And developing those social skills in navigating those difficult situations appropriately renders talk to the natural environment by doing collaborative. 46:26 Here’s the resources. 46:30 The first three books, they gruff green, you know that your website’s one is more about school, one more family. 46:36 I want to return to that yet. I read a little bit, I read before it the beginning of this presentation about 40, 45 minutes ago. 46:46 I’m going to ask you to pause again and think, How would you approach this problem now after I gave this laptop? 46:56 Every time Johnny coming to class after Jim, he’s seen the agitated Scowling: moving away short tense motion. 47:03 The moment he sits down in the classroom, he puts his head down. 47:07 Well, he does the quiet, when the teacher teach it, Cuellar usually keep his head down until the bell rings. 47:14 If you’ve given it work to complete, you will ignore it. 47:17 If you explicitly asked to do something, you either ignore it for some time to find angrily. 47:23 I’m not doing the stupid assignment Which leads which can lead to an escalation if he is not ignored, the other kids laugh at him with it. 47:34 So thinking about the idea, if kids do well, if they can. 47:40 Would you approach a child any differently, Will you, or to try to understand, what is getting in, John, you way, with these expectations? What are the lagging skills? How is he not being heard? 47:53 And how can we help Johnny? 47:55 And all the other Johnny’s families in our schools, in their institutions, recognize that they matter that we believe that they can do well? 48:06 It’s our job as the adults to give them the space to express themselves. 48:10 We can help them learn the skills that they can. 48:16 Hey. Thank you so much. I know that there’s a lot of time for Q&A now. Self, think, I did pretty well on time. 48:23 Excellent. Thank you so much, doctor Wakeman. That was wonderful, so informative, and just, what an approach to working with your children. Thank you for sharing that. And we do have a few questions here. And I remind everyone, if you have a question, to please type it in the question box, and just hit send. 48:40 So, one of the questions we have here, doctor Lipman, is what does CBS suggest you do in the middle of a meltdown with tantrum? 48:48 That’s an excellent question. 48:51 OK, though, well, it’s good to plan in advance, right? 48:54 But what about when we’re in the middle of one? 48:57 So, this, I actually didn’t get the real weakness of the collaborative problem solving approach. There is something called emergency plan B that they talk about in the literature, but the research doesn’t really support it, and this, I want to be clear. 49:08 Collaborative problem solving is an evidence based treatment has been shown to work bore problem. They’re showing up in the moment though, it’s not as effective and typically I actually say, we want to fall back on clancey. 49:23 As long as it’s not super dangerous, right? We kinda let the tantrum happen, take a step back, right. 49:30 Then, when everyone’s calm again, later, we want to get back and say, So I know this that X, Y, and Z Right. 49:42 Thank you for that answer. 49:45 Also, here we have another question here. What if both the parent and child are having difficulties coming up with a solution? What do you do that in that situation? 49:53 Both sides, not even to come to a solution. Right? So what if there’s all those problems with actually coming up with a solution that both parents, both parent and child, are stuck. 50:06 So, a few things. 50:07 one, hire the professional. 50:11 I’m only kidding when I say that, but what is, right? 50:14 You know, this is where having a specialist, right? Whether it’s a therapist, guidance counselor is all right, other adults in the child’s life asking them for help, too. 50:26 I think it’s really important to be able to say, hey, I’m also seeing a lot of trouble. They say, they’re really, really that problem, Right? 50:33 Then you want to maybe return to Europe. 50:36 The empathy that defines the problems really dive a little bit deeper into what is getting in, though, Right? 50:46 And often, if you can think of a solution, it might be that we don’t really have a good understanding of, So, you know, go back to the empathy step in the define the problem step. 50:58 Or, um, right, we might just need to take a break. They aren’t. 51:04 No child hears her, you put your concerns out there. Let’s take a step back. Let’s think a little bit more about this and that’s kinda come back in a little while. 51:12 So yeah, that’s what I would recommend there. 51:17 This is an, I had a teenager was before, sends a grownup, but someone has a question here. My son is so rigid. How CPS worked for him And he’s 16. 51:26 I know those teenage years can be write something. 51:30 I actually think this delusion is this process. 51:33 If this, these type of Plan B works really well with CUNY, actually get teenagers. 51:41 So badly want to be heard, right? Oh, they want some. 51:47 So, if your child is rigid, right? 51:50 You really want to slow down and dive in deep into the empathy. 51:55 If the child feels heard, your child feels heard, they are much more likely to be able to let go of some of that rigidity. 52:03 By rigidity is often a defensiveness around feeling unheard and that the feeling exhausted and knocking take into account or appreciate. 52:13 The there, I would hope I really think, you know, you need to dive deep into the empathy stuff. 52:19 And I think if you do, you will find that your child is actually much more willing to hear possible solutions that, that maybe they wouldn’t have been able to before. 52:33 OK, can think? And what age can you start practicing CPS with a child? 52:40 I think, you know, depends on the ability of the child and everything, but probably not younger than seven, you know, 8 or 9, right. 52:51 7 to 9, I’d say, depending on the maturity and capability of the child. 52:58 79, OK. 53:03 Kinda with this question here, there’s also, when I do acknowledge his feelings, I think it’s the same, um, parents also wanted to acknowledge his feelings and use empathy. 53:15 It can be very defensive. 53:20 It can be very manipulative. That’s what it is. 53:23 When I acknowledge his feelings and he use empathy, he can be manipulated. 53:28 So, maybe, um, I don’t know your processor, but it’s hard for me to say Very clearly Teresa, there, you know, talking to what you’re saying without knowing more. 53:42 Typically, when I hear that, what I would typically, I find happening in that there is not a lot of the empathy going on, right. 53:51 Or they can’t feel that it’s a phone in kind of empathy, Right, and so it goes back to that sort of you know trying to manipulate But here’s the thing. 54:00 Typically, if a kid is so rigid, their ability to manipulate is not going to be very strong. Right? Because those skills, the ability to manipulate people, right? 54:09 They’re just reacting in the reacting emotionally, usually, right? 54:12 And so, if they’re acting emotionally to your empathy, that’s where you need to weather the storm, Right? You need to be a rock in the midst of a raging ocean. 54:23 Lot. It did ask me a lot for parents, Right? 54:27 The reality is, right, this is, This is the job of the parents. 54:32 And if you can withstand that emotional response, the expression, the anger that might come out of that, and show that you’re still there, I think, you’ll find a lot of that. Manipulation is actually starting to fade away. 54:49 Thank you. 54:51 Um. 54:53 Another question here. 54:55 What does this is good when one of the parents don’t agree on using CPS for their child’s explosive and problematic behaviors? 55:03 Hmm. 55:05 The parents don’t want it that’s not going to work. 55:09 Right? 55:10 And now the question: Why? 55:11 Right? 55:13 If appears I like to why? 55:16 Right? Do they see it as capitulation? 55:19 You see the whole profit’s capitulation. It totally makes sense. Why parent wouldn’t want to do it. Right. You know, if it’s all about key gift to be heard, can’t get to what they want. Right? I wouldn’t want to use something like this either. 55:31 Right, so if you’re a medical professional or someone that kind of either a teacher and you’re trying to help parents with death, Right, You need to tell them on it. And then explain that is not that. 55:41 Um, so a lot of it depends on why the parents are unwilling to. 55:48 It depends on why the parents are willing to. 55:51 I think a lot of it goes back to really thinking about like, Whoa, why, right, and trying to understand that You know, If you’re a medical professional working with parents, a teacher, a empathy, I would never you this is not going to work. 56:05 So you’re saying that you have all these behavioral challenges that come up in home, caregiver, whoever you know, and that you’re, you know, this wouldn’t work or you’re not willing to do that What’s up? 56:18 Here’s another here’s another question is actually very interesting. I was thinking about this myself. 56:22 This question says, CBS is Collaborative and a Proactive solutions, Right? 56:27 Isn’t it for all kids? 56:29 Not just Neurodiverse …, Yeah, oh, absolutely. 56:33 Absolutely. 56:35 Um, yeah know, I don’t know that when we look at some of the diagnoses they looked at earlier and that these have to be diagnostics tougher than half the neuro divergent, right, kids do well as they can. 56:49 Right, what a powerful idea, let’s apply to all kids, all kids, every kid in the classroom, every kid in the family, right? 56:58 Yeah, you can use this with anyone. 57:01 Something that I plan on using with my old children, I want my kids to be able to think clearly about their problem. 57:08 They express their emotion, right, You know, that empathy step is something that I find that a part of both of my life, it might keep always, right. So yeah, absolutely, use it with every yet, please use it with everything. 57:22 Yeah, Easily with every kid, Right? Yeah. 57:27 And, um. 57:30 What if a child doesn’t want to have a CBS compensation, CPS conversation? If they don’t want you to engage, where do you start? 57:39 So yeah, kinda got me again, That’s why. 57:42 Sometimes you just have to work really slow. 57:44 Sometimes the only thing you can do is sit down and notice X, Y, Z, what’s up? 57:51 And that might be as far as you get, that’s OK. 57:55 You keep coming back. 57:58 You need to keep coming back in the calm. 58:01 Pass it caring way, because all they have a kid doesn’t want to get involved in it. 58:08 Time and time again, I see this. 58:10 They don’t believe that you, as imperator actually invested, they don’t think you care. 58:18 They think, right? You’re going to just the straight back into play. 58:22 And so, you need to keep trying to show the kid that you are. 58:35 Good advice. 58:36 Thank you so much, doctor Lipman. 58:38 We appreciate it. 58:39 We’ve actually come to the end of our session. 58:43 I asked that if there weren’t any questions. Or if you have a question, you think about it later tonight, Azure. 58:48 Trying to navigate some things with your child, you know, please go to our Wednesday webinar blog on our website under the program heading and leave your questions there. 58:57 As I said, the webinar blog will be managed for the next seven days so we can continue to and on this conversation, on line. 59:05 Thank you again tonight for being here, doctor Liquor. And we so appreciate you, your wealth of knowledge that you bring to this is incredible. We appreciate it. 59:13 And I want to thank everyone for joining our webinar this evening on collaborative problem solving. There was an exit survey. So we would like you to please take a moment to fill that out. That really helps us as we inform and make decisions about our programming, particularly our webinar programming. 59:28 The webinar blog is now available. 59:30 We open for the next seven days, as I mentioned, and also an archive recording recording of tonight’s webinar will be on our website, as well. 59:38 Our next presentation will be on Organizational Skills presented by doctor Richard Gallagher, and this will be on September 21st. We take a break in July and August. 59:46 But we will be back in the fall with a new webinar lineup with some new exciting topics. And we, we ask you to please join us, But during the summer, we will also have automatic talk sessions. That talk is a similar format, but it’s on Zoom. We ask you to join us then. The next one is July 21st. And it will be facilitated by a psychotherapist Gail woman. And the topic is keeping a relationship intact in the midst of raising a child with TS. So it’s all about keeping your relationship healthy with your significant other while you’re raising a child with a chronic condition. 1:00:19 So I think that would be a wonderful conversation to have with, uh, with doctor Dale Foreman at that point. So, we thank you, everyone, for joining us this evening. 1:00:30 We look forward to starting our webinars, Wednesday webinar series again in the fall. 1:00:34 And check out. So that talk and our other programming on our website at … dot org. 1:00:39 Thank you, everyone. 1:00:42 Pleasure to have you.