What is burnout? We’ve all likely felt it in some capacity whether at home, in a school setting, or within our job environment. In the current pandemic setting, parents are wearing even more hats than they usually do and have found themselves very swiftly and without much preparation time playing the role of parent, educator, behavioral therapist, and coach. For children with neurodevelopmental disorders, the COVID-19 environment has meant a drastic change from their daily routine and left parents and caregivers feeling overwhelmed and burned out.
Dr. Azlen Theobald of NeurAbilities Healthcare will discuss parental burnout, strategies to help reduce conflict, and ways to manage mental health for both parents and children during this public health crisis.
Thank you, Kelly, and good evening, everyone, Welcome to tonight’s webinar. I hope everyone and their families are holding up well during this covert event that we’re living through. We really appreciate your time tonight.
Often, at this point in my remarks, I would remind everyone of some special event that’s coming up in the NJCTS calendar. Well, I’m not doing that tonight, but I do want to announce, as Kelly kind of beat me to it, that this will be my last webinar. I’m retiring at the end of this month, and on a personal note, I am absolutely ready.
It has been my distinct pleasure to be the co-ordinator of this program since its inception over 11 years ago.
From the beginning, one of our objectives was to provide good, solid information, so that everyone who listens to one of our webinars will learn something they didn’t know before.
I hope we have successfully met that objective, raising and, or educating a child with T S or other neurological disorders, or, in my instance, a medical disability knows this is not an easy road over these past years. I hope that we have what we’ve provided has made a difference.
It has been my particular pleasure to work alongside Kelly for all these years. I often refer to her as the Wizard behind the Curtain.
She makes the whole process work, and all I have to do is stay out of her way.
I’m also pleased tonight to introduce Christine Morton. Pardon me, who is the new webinar co-ordinator. I feel very confident that she will very capably present you with something that you didn’t know before.
Feel free to e-mail her with suggestions for upcoming programming.
Now, I’d like to introduce our presenter for tonight, Dr. Azlen Theobald. This is her second webinar with us. Her previous webinar on Improving Social Outcomes for Children with Tourette syndrome and other neurological disorders is available for download on our website.
Doctor Theobald completed her doctoral degree in Clinical psychology at LaSalle University in Philadelphia with a concentration in Child and Family Psychology.
She also completed an American Psychological Association accredited internship at Terry Childrens’ Psychiatric Center in Newcastle Delaware and has also trained at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
She specializes in improving neuropsychological evaluations for I’m sorry, she specializes in providing neuropsychological evaluations for various populations across the lifespan from toddlers to older adults. Her areas of expertise and specialization include attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, autism spectrum disorder, Tourette syndrome, traumatic brain injury and dementia.
Doctor Theobald received specialized training in executive function skills for children and adolescents and is formally trained on the autism diagnostic observation schedule. She has presented research on the Family Impact of neurodevelopmental disorders, including Autism and Tourette syndrome.
Doctor Theobald it’s a pleasure to have you back. And now, without further introduction, I’ll be happy to turn tonight’s program over to you.
Thank you so much, Marty, Kelly, and to Marty. It’s been a pleasure getting to know you, and work with you only these past couple of months, but I wish you all the best in your retirement with good health and happiness.
So, here we are tonight to talk about parental burnout in the face of covert 19, which is what the title slide says, and I’m sure we’re gonna get into parental burnout. And I’m sure there’ll be a lot of questions at the end about burnout. and, you know, maybe some even more specific questions about burnout in families, where you’re dealing with a specific issue or child behavior issue, or mental health disorder and neurodevelopmental disorder. So I’ll try and leave a lot of time at the end so we can answer some questions. And I give that with the caveat that I may not have all of the answers, but maybe together we can kind of collaborate and, and, you know, come to come some consensus of some positive direction where we can, where we can move forward.
So the idea of burnout is kind of novel.
It feels like we’ve been living it for years now, even though it’s been a couple of months that we’ve been facing the pandemic, But the idea of Burnout was originally, was used as a term within the workplace, came about to be more mainstream in the early two thousands, around 2004. When a group of researchers were looking into job burnout, and they questioned whether or not burnout was restricted to one’s work. And these researchers determined that anyone who was doing something meaningful that was also enduring conditions of chronic stress, was experiencing burnout, so after some research, they did in fact, find, that parents can burn out.
And, you know, I was just wanting to start off on a little bit of a light note, that I was thinking the other day of, what might, I was looking at my business card, and handing it to a parent. And I kind of laughed to myself, because I thought, Well, OK, so this is one job title, but, if we were all to kind of look at our collective job titles, that very suddenly came upon us back in, somewhere around mid March.
I think our our business cards would be like the size of an 8.5 by 11 piece of paper and would say things like parent teacher, support person coach therapist, Housecleaner Chef Entertainer, oh! And your actual real job that parents have been trying to maintain and hold down these many months.
And, you know, I applaud all the parents who are just have hunkered down and have really done Herculean efforts to try and get their kids through the end of the school year. I applaud the teachers and all the support staff who have really gone above and beyond. Nobody had. Maybe some people had some contingency plans for something sort of like this, but nothing exact. And, you know, we all kind of adapted very, very fast And most of us, without any training on how to do it, I I’m trained to kind of work with children, but I have three kids of my own. And it was it was really, really hard and it still is really hard. So I empathize with all of you out there. But I wanted to start out with a little bit of levity.
And one quick story, the housecleaner bullet on this slide.
The outset of all of this with the pandemic I kinda said, all right. Here’s all the things we’re going to do as a family.
And we’re going to have this schedule and, you know, you, this child is going to be in charge of this bathroom, so trying to model how to clean the bathroom for a nine year old. And what I didn’t quite model, I omitted the part about not mixing certain toxic chemicals like bleach, And oh, I forget what it was some other kind of house cleaner. So we all had to evacuate our house for a couple hours, because we had toxic gas going on in the house. So that was, you know, my form.
I’m sure all of us have a lots of stories.
Wanting to therapy.
What is burnout? It’s the dead is data has suggested that there are four main components of burnout. So it’s really an exhaustion syndrome characterized by the following.
So, it’s feeling exhausted by the parental role, kind of unable, and feeling really overwhelmed by basic parenting tasks.
Feeling like there is some contrast with the parent, you kinda were, so the me now is not as competent as the Me Then, and not being as fulfilled, and your role now as as your Role, then. So, there’s kind of this physical and emotional exhaustion.
There’s this feeling like you’re emotionally distancing from your children. So, feeling kind of fed up with the parental role, feeling very frustrated with the tasks of parenting.
And when you’re feeling this emotional distancing from your children, also feeling disconnected so it’s not really numbness but it’s just kinda feeling like a lull of emotion toward your kids.
So, it, just to kind of recap, those, being exhausted by the parental role, Feeling like there is a contrast with kind of the parent you were, and the parent you now are and Not being as fulfilled in your role Now is as your role, then. So we could call, that may be pre March, maybe February, Feeling fed up with the parental role, being really frustrated with the task of parenting, and this kind of sense of being disconnected from your children.
And it’s different than job burnout. Absolutely! Because it’s contextual. It’s very specific to the parent and context and the parenting tasks.
Can you have both job burnout and parent burnout at the same time? Absolutely, Yes, 100%. And probably most of us do. And there’s some small to moderate correlation between having job burnout and having burnout in other areas of your life.
So because what burnout is, it’s sort of a response that you’re having two conditions of chronic stress, that are really beyond your current capacity to cope.
So it’s definitely not outside the realm of possibility that you may have burnout in multiple environments.
And the thing is parents aren’t supposed to be able to burnout.
We’re taught both explicitly and implicitly from no information we get externally as well as from what we come from from our own identities, from our own knowledge from our own experiences, maybe how we were parented.
That parenting is this ultra rewarding for filling. And so wonderful. That one smile from your beloved child will instantly fulfill you, and that the task is so joyful that the occasional difficulties are barely noticed. And that is just plain, not true. And it’s a myth that can really do some damage and be very harmful to parents.
So who’s at risk for this? A lot of people, when we say risk factors, I don’t mean that, you know, if you’re a parent, then you’re going to get burned out. That’s really a causal relationship and that’s not what, what we’re talking about.
So some studies have been done on this.
And, you know, I’m going to go over sort of who, what, what groups of parents or what types of parents are are most at risk for being burned out.
So the first one, it’s that myth, It’s holding yourself to this unreasonable standard, trying to be a perfect parent, and get everything right all the time. And guess what? None of us ever do, so trying to hold yourself to that standard is absolutely unrealistic and can be very damaging.
The second one is your temperament, your personality of a parent kind of what you bring to the table. Your no organic personality, So that’s why there’s a lot of variability in quote, you know, how we are Our personalities or a temperament? Some of us are more reserved or introverted. While others are much more extroverted some of us struggle with an anxiety disorder or chronic worry. While other others may struggle with low mood and depression. So that’s a predictor of parental burnout.
Um, the parental response to stress, these are really significant predictors of whether one is more likely or less likely to feel the effects of burnout.
If you’re a single parent, if you don’t have support, and you have to shoulder the burden of the family day in and day out, that is a very significant factor in parent burnout.
Parents who may have not witnessed appropriate parental modeling as a child. So, through your, through your childhood, maybe you didn’t have the best experience with your parents.
Those individuals are at greater risk for burnout, or perhaps parents who don’t have really well developed skills in child rearing practices.
So, you know, parents who have good skills about managing behavior, picking battles, and navigating the day-to-day challenges of child racing do tend to fare better and are able to kind of have lesser risk for parent burnout.
You’re raising a child with a chronic health condition.
A mental health condition, a neurodevelopmental condition, or any kind of child with special needs, even if it’s a learning disability, dyslexia, any kind of, of special needs that will pull more resources from you. So those parents are also more at risk.
Um, because the demands are much greater on you, you need to spend more time working with your kids which will push your other priorities on the back burner for yourself and that includes self care.
And the last one is working from home, that is a very significant factor in increasing increased risk for parent burnout.
So, I thought when I, when I was, was reading that article, I thought, well, isn’t that most of us over these past few months? So unless you’re an essential worker, in which case you’re missing your kids, you’re likely working long hours in cooling conditions to keep the rest of us all safe.
And you have that added concern and worry of increased risk of exposure to covert. So that group of individuals is much more likely to experience parent burnout.
I wanted to talk about some consequences associated with per parent burnout. So kinda what happens, what are the consequences when a parent really reaches that critical point of experiencing burnout?
Again, these are associated, but not necessarily caused by parent burnout. So I just wanted to re-iterate that the first one is mood changes. parents, who are really depleted are much greater risk for depression.
There’s much greater risk for issues with substance use or abuse, disrupted sleep. You’re up multiple times a night spatially parents who have brought newborns into the world in the past couple of months. I mean, really experiencing disrupted sleep during during a really difficult time.
There’s couples conflict that parents will are at increased risk. Once you’re kinda depleted with your, with your partner’s significant other.
There’s child neglect, increased risk. I’m sure many of you have heard, or read lots of articles about the increased risk of physical violence in the home and domestic violence, in the home mom, as a result of everybody kind of being hunker down in one place.
And lastly, the risk of self harm or suicidal ideation.
Those are really some of the more critical consequences that are associated with parental burnout. So those consequences are pretty great and under these current conditions, parents are at a much greater risk for having some of these consequences occur. So it’s really important. To be vigilant. kinda monitor yourself check in with yourself and see how you’re doing. As a parent and as an individual to your only identity is not just being a parent.
So we’ll, I will talk about that momentarily and that that parenting relationship is crucial to children’s psychological development.
So attachment or the lack thereof can be very damaging.
That’s why it’s so threatening to even consider the possibility that parents can burn out.
But if we can’t think about it, then we can’t do anything to address it.
And the thing is, is we can’t give what we don’t have. If we’re disconnected from ourselves, we can’t do the three critical things that children need, attachment, love, and nurturing.
If we’re under stress, we can’t always respond with patients and model that compassionate caring in the face of challenges, and since for parents, it’s really up to the parent to know when that’s happening, when burnout is reaching critical levels, when that tilt is flashing, when the red alarms are going off and to know what to do about it.
That problem is particularly severe when parenting a challenging child. In our practice and our abilities, we treat.
We work with parents and families of children with neurodevelopmental diagnoses, and neurological disorders. So when you’re parenting, a child who’s presenting problem is anxiety, obsessive compulsive disorder, attention, deficits, depression, or an autism spectrum disorder. The potential for burnout is so much higher.
Um, some of the physiological effects of stress are pretty numerous. So in times of stress one’s thinking can become really confused and distorted.
Um, know, I have seen lots of people, I myself have noticed that I’m a little bit more repetitive, A question, whether I told someone something, I start sentences a lot of times with forgive me if I told you this already, but, writing a lot more things down. So, you know, I’m really trying to kind of build, boost my organizational skills a little bit more, because I’ve, I’ve, I myself have been more stress and have experience more stress. So, I’ve noticed that my thinking is becoming a little.
But, not, not as ideal, it, or not as good as it was before March on short-term memory can also become quite impaired when stress levels, drastically increase.
And a couple of other physiological effects. So, L of blood pressure can rise.
Headaches can become more frequent, or more intense, or both judgement becomes a bit more impaired. There’s, there’s apatite changes, whether apatite notably increases.
If you’re more an emotional eater or applicant appetite decreases, because this distress just depending on how you respond to stress, some people just don’t want to eat, they feel that their stomachs kind of not. So that that appetite is reduced.
There’s gas gastrointestinal changes, as well.
So you just can’t do all of this on a low battery. And, like I said before, but parents of kids who are maybe not necessarily neurotypical have are really struggling.
There are the effects alone of kids who were getting services in school that all had to shift to some type of online format. So I’ve heard, you know, some people were able to do it really, really well, and deliver that service in an online format quite well.
Other, other people didn’t have the same positive experiences. So, you know, it really was kind of, maybe even down to clinicians. Specific of, of how those services are being delivered. Some services, if you were getting speech therapy as part of an IEP in your school, maybe that was reduced in, in how the frequency, kind of, the dose of the therapy that you’re able to get for it, for numerous factors. So, you know, those parents, in particular, had to really pick up a lot of slack.
And, you know, some parents may have noticed a regression and skills and other effects of their child not being able to go to school.
So, again, talking about, well, there were lots of concerns. So these additional challenges included, it’s my child going to regress and skills.
How can I get services for my child that that didn’t kind of boot up immediately When school shut down. That kind of took a little while for a lot of districts, just because this was a novel situation and everybody was trying to do their best to kind of figure all of this out.
And, uh, one thing I wanted to mention, that it’s OK, I know most schools are finished for the school year, but it’s OK to reach out to your case manager, on your child, on the child study team, at your child’s school, and ask for support, What kind of things can I can are available for my child this summer?
What kind of resources can you provide me with the summer months, because you know, even though school ended, a lot of parents feel kinda like, I already had summer vacation, and it’s only mid june.
So what are we going to do for the rest of the summer? I know, my children’s cancer all canceled for the summer, so they’re all home, and I’m sure a lot of you out there experienced the same thing. So it’s OK to ask for support from, from your providers and from your child’s treatment team, to see what is available for the summer, even, know, books and other resources. Other online resources to try and keep your child as a float as possible, and reduce that risk of regression and skills.
Um, it was also a time these past couple months in the coming months of the summer, where we could focus on other types of learning, so life skills development, particularly for kids with intellectual disabilities, or kids, with autism, with a language disorder, with intellectual.
disabilities, as well. Focusing on that life skill development. Really honing in on hygiene, inch and showering and tooth brushing, learning how to make something really simple. A simple meal, learning how to kind of care for themselves a little bit more. This is a really good time to do it. And I’ve seen some really wonderful stories out there of what kids are able to learn at home.
And I can’t say this one enough, I’m sure everybody’s exhausted with hearing it, but really keeping schedules and routines as consistent as possible to set your family up for success. And I’ll elaborate on that. And in a moment. So how to manage parental burnout?
So if you’re a parent, I just want you to start where you are, and what does that mean? So that means, take a moment, hit the pause button, on your current moment, and let yourself really acknowledge how difficult these times are.
So many of us in the mental health community have noticed that some days are just better than others, and that the emotions kind of come in waves. So, there’s this period of feeling like, OK, things are going to open soon.
Then we hear that there’s another way of coming and hearing there’s increases in covid cases after recent large gatherings all over our country.
So it’s really important to acknowledge the communities that are also living in poverty and communities of color are experiencing much more significant consequences of the Covid crisis than those of us who are not in those communities.
So while we may say, we’re all in this together, we are truly experiencing our own struggles in varying ways that are not the same as everyone else’s.
I want you to let yourself off the hook when I, you know, like I said, in the beginning, when I first got word, that things would be shutting down. I made this whole list of things I wanted to get done.
And, you know, in reality, how many of those things I actually accomplished, maybe 2 or 3. So I had felt like I failed and I saw some pretty funny memes on this exact sentiment. So, but then I realized, You know what? It’s OK that I don’t cause everything. On my to-do list, that is totally OK.
Create your own support group. Many of you may have already done this on create a support group of peers, co-workers, friends, family, who can really be around you. You should not do this alone, and if you feel isolated, there’s many agencies speaking exact to this exact practice of coping during the crisis. And the other way that you can do this is, realize that you’re not alone in any way, in your feelings of being overwhelmed, either. So reaching out to others. That’s probably going to show you that many parents are struggling and exactly the same ways.
Stop and breathe. You do need downtime, whether that’s finding some space at the end of the night. Everyone else is gone to bed or carving out a couple of moments throughout the day, just to stop and check in with yourself, to see how you’re doing.
Want you to take breaks. Scheduled breaks. Set the alarm on your phone for every hour, just get up for two minutes and take a walk. There were some days where I didn’t get it from my chair for 3 or 4 hours, and my legs were asleep, and the last 20 minutes, or whatever work I did was really not the best quality. So really, taking breaks can kinda recharge you mentally?
Excuse me, get enough sleep.
You have to nourish your body, limiting nicotine and alcohol that that that content to increase ragging as the next day in and really windup shortening your fuse. So you’re not going to be able to tolerate as much or demonstrate as much patience.
Next one is mindfulness. So this is a tough one to do, but really honing in on your mood, your thoughts, your emotions is a better strategy than avoiding your emotions.
When I was in grad school, we had this ubiquitous analogy of, take a blown up beachball and try to push it under water. Like, maybe, take a beach ball, put in a swimming pool and try to submerge an underwater. It won’t stay submerged. When you let go, They always bounces back up. So that’s what it’s like. When we try to suppress our emotions, and we try to avoid them, they always come back.
Um, the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, technique. So that’s one I really love. I used that myself when feeling overwhelmed. You have to pay attention, and really try to engage your five senses.
So this simple exercise of focusing on five things, and kids really love doing this, do this together as a family. We have a child who has a pretty low frustration tolerance. This is an excellent strategy to get them to begin practicing and using and implementing in many different settings. School, out with brands at home. So you focus on five things.
You can see four things you can hear. So maybe you hear the birds, you hear a lawnmower or you hear your kids, three things you can smell. It could be the cut grass. Could be the paper on your desk. Could be the Coffee Cup next to you.
two things you can taste your toothpaste from the morning, or maybe the coffee you’re drinking, and one thing you can touch, and that practice causes your brain in the reaction process of stress. And it really allows your mind to focus on something else, even if it’s just for brief moments.
I really like that one. Try to manage temper outburst. So that’s easier said than done. So there’s this distinction between feeling anger and how you respond to it. So it is absolutely OK and normal to feel what you’re feeling and think what you’re thinking.
If you lose your temper, you may react, you may tend to react by feeling shameful or embarrassed and that can cause additional stress to your situation.
It’s really let yourself off the hook when dealing and thinking in angry ways.
But just to re-iterate that it’s not OK to engage in violence with physical discipline, Step back from your thoughts. So think for a moment about thought you have, that you find unacceptable or unwanted. So for example, maybe having the thought, I’m a terrible parent.
So just notice the process of your thinking and tell yourself, OK, so I’m having the thought that I’m a terrible parent. I’m having the thought that, I just want a runaway right now. So all you’re doing is noticing the thought and commenting on it, but you’re not becoming the thought.
It doesn’t make the … go away, no, but you can step back from them and it allows you to kind of externalize the thought and kind of make it kind of away from you that helped to change your reaction to the thought, and allows you to choose how you react to these thoughts.
Um, the next one is, ask yourself to slow down and ask yourself, what do I need right now?
In this moment, do you need to get away from some noise? Do you need to step outside and breathe some fresh air? Are you hungry to see if you can check in with yourself?
And allow yourself one really nice act of kindness, and love and compassion at least once a day, and that is really hard for parents to do.
We put our children’s needs first, They’re hungry, so they eat first, Maybe I just don’t get to eat lunch today.
They need to get through their homework, but I need to jump on a call for work. But, OK, I guess I’ll dial in late. That’s OK, so if you noticed that voice creeping up in your mind, try to see if you can be a little more kind to yourself, even for the moment.
And this last one, do not compare yourself to other parents or families.
I have somebody from my high school formed a us workout support group, and it started with, you know, maybe 50 of us. And it really grew exponentially across the country, and it was a couple thousand dollars.
But, when I last checked, And I would get so frustrated when I was when I would see, I ran 10 miles today, I did a peloton class, and then I went and ran five miles with my kid and I’m thinking, wait. When are these people doing this?
So, I just realized, you know, their life is different from mine and maybe I don’t have time to do that. So, I’m not going to compare myself to other people. Maybe I walked a mile that day, and that was just that, was just great.
Um, and engaging in all of these actions I just discussed, can help promote something called psychological flexibility.
What that really means is choosing to do what’s best for you and what matters to you.
It’s based on the principles of acceptance and commitment therapy or some of you may have vertical this Act therapy or act, It essentially looks at your character traits and behaviors to help you in reducing avoidant coping styles.
So I don’t mean indulging yourself in ways to avoid your emotion.
It’s really about when you’re experiencing stress, Just kinda stepping back, noticing your emotions, and choosing toward taking a small footstep toward where you want to be, learning how to flexibly, behave in a way that serves you that works for you rather than works against you. And this is this is just a graphic. For those of you who are clinicians, you may know this is something called the hex of flex. It’s a fancy term for. It’s really you as an individual working toward your goals toward those values on the right side. So taking that step, what is my value? My value is I’d like to be a little healthier.
So when you’re faced with a choice of, Am I going to eat a whole pint of ice cream? Or is it am I working toward my value of just having a serving of ice cream? That’s working toward my value toward what, where I want to be toward what I’m choosing to be. So it really helps work against people who have avoidant coping styles.
I love this cartoon. So I think this was the feeling a lot of parents had when we heard that the shutdown of schools was, was common. So, the bottom, it says, your mother and I are feeling overwhelmed, so you’ll have to bring yourselves up. And I think everybody’s looking a little overwhelmed in that, in that picture.
So, younger children have particularly suffered during, during this time, and they’ve really miss things like the playground being social, seeing their friends, having a routine, And it’s really been impactful for that younger age group in the 4 to 10 year age range.
So, a couple of things we can do for them.
Because sometimes we forget, you know, older kids are able to express to us or physically stomp around the house or slam doors, their frustration. Younger kids could do that too, but it’s a lot harder for them to verbalize exactly how they’re feeling and kind of have a debrief with them.
So a couple of things you can do as a parent for the younger group under 10, Empathize with them That’s really first and foremost. Label what you’re seeing, I I see how you’re feeling you look sad, you look mad.
Try not to give them advice at the start. Really try and help them guide them to identify their emotions and how they’re feeling. After that, you can then walk them through the why. They’re feeling that way.
So it might sound something like, send your child. If I were a pair of eyes and your brain, what thoughts, what I see floating around?
And you can even start the thought for them by saying, I feel like and let them finish the thought, or imad because, Or, I really wish I could let them finish. Give them kind of a starting prompt. Let them know that what they’re feeling is very real, and valid, and appropriate for their age.
You can tell them that this is a really unusual time. It doesn’t happen often. Because they’re all frightened that this is what every school year is going to look like. Or this is what every summer is going to be for their future. So really help them label their emotions. Help them understand that emotions are not permanent. They come and go.
And called her attention to when their emotions change. So you notice that your child was really upset.
Maybe 10 minutes later, they’re doing something enjoyable, and you see a smile on their face Label that say, Wow, you were really upset 10 minutes ago, and I see that, that’s changed, so that calls their attention. So, they can be raised that awareness that emotions aren’t permanent.
Might want to make a calm down space in your house or some kind of work with very lights and soft pillows where they can go to feel safe, let their emotions are really release some of those feelings.
You can model emotions, and responses to frustration for them. This is really how they learn.
If you’re feeling overwhelmed, you can say something like, I feel like my work is really piling up and I can’t get it done until after everyone goes to bed. So that, that’s really frustrating and I’m feeling very tired. I wish I could take a nap right now.
Saying it calmly but honestly is letting your child know that parents can experience negative emotions too, that that is normal.
But how they’re responding to it is is the key for them to see.
So a lot of us became teachers overnight. And I love this. So teachers were really, really appreciated, Again, as they should be. And should always be teachers do way more than teach. They are kind of the emotional regulators for our kids and referees and the coaches.
And just I have just done a fantastic job and I I I hope that the one benefit of this experience is that we all realize just how much teachers and educators and and the administrative staff really do for our kids while they’re in ours in the schools all day.
So how can a parent get a break?
A lot of people said, How do I get a break? How do I let my kids know? I need just need a minute to myself?
Um, so I like to use if then statements. If you do this, then you can have that. So you could say to your child, something, like, I need 15 minutes alone, I need you to go in your room or go to your siblings room and play quietly.
If you can give me 15 minutes by myself, then we can do something fun afterwards.
Kids do not understand the construct of time until certain age, So really, using timers. Countdown timers are the best because time is just this nebulous construct.
If you don’t think your child can handle 15 minutes that just meet them where they are, started three minutes and shape the behavior to longer periods of time. But if you said you’re gonna go do something fun, you really do have to follow through, doesn’t have to be setting up a carnival in your backyard. It could be just something kind of simple, but you have to follow through. If you have really little ones, try to keep them in your line of sight to ensure their safety. But do disengage for them for a period of time, or give them an activity to keep their attention, then reward them for giving you some alone time.
So kids have really been scared during this. And children rely on their parents for safety, both physical and emotional.
So really re-assure your children that you’re there for them, that your family will get through this together, answer questions about the pandemic simply, but honestly, talk with children about any frightening news. They’re hearing on TV or reading. And it’s OK to say people are getting sick. But, you know, saying something like, following rules like hand-washing and staying home will help your family stay healthy.
Recognize your child’s feelings, and you can just calmly say, I see that you’re upset because you can’t have friends over.
Guiding questions can help. Older children and teens really work through issues.
So, something like saying to your child, I know it’s disappointing.
Not being able to hang out with your friends right now, how do we think it is the best? What’s the best way you can stay in touch with them?
There have been a lot of social media messenger apps that kids can use kind of with a parent overseeing it for safety. So really allowing your kid some online space to continue socially connecting with their peers is really important to keep in touch with loved ones. Solon may also worry about a grandparent who’s living alone or relative or friend with an increased risk of getting Corbett 19. So video chats can really help ease that anxiety.
Again, modeling how you’re managing feeling.
I’m worried about Grandma. since I can’t go visit her, the best I can do is to check in with her more often by phone, Let’s put a reminder on the phone to call her in the morning and in the afternoon, and then we can check on her together.
Tell your child when you’re leaving the house for work or for essential errant in a calm, re-assuring voice. Tell them where you’re going, how long you think you’ll be gone, when you will return, and that you’re taking steps to stay safe.
Means is particularly important for kids who are struggling with anxiety and look forward with hope, Tell them that scientists are working hard to figure out how to help people who get sick and that things will get better.
Um, Keeping Healthy Routines is really important to limit parent burnout so during the pandemic it’s been really more important than ever to maintain bedtime and other routines, they do, it does create a sense of order of the day.
It allows parents the knowledge to know, OK, at this time, I know I can have some downtime to myself and practice them self care.
You know, things that you’d like to engage in.
All children really, including team, do benefit from the teams that are predictable but flexible enough to meet individual needs at the right developmental stage. So, structure the day with the usual routines that are kind of thrown off established new schedules, so break-up schoolwork when possible.
Older children, Teens can help collaborate with schedules, but they should follow a general order, something like, um, wake up routines, getting dressed, breakfast some kind of active play in the morning, maybe quiet play a snack, and then transitioning into schoolwork. Which, again, I know most schools are done. Some families are still doing extended school year.
Exercise and activity is really important to build in through your day. I talked about some online social time with friends, some joint family time, some kind of an enjoyable activities, or just hanging out, watching a movie.
Um, and reading before bed is also really important.
And just a word about bedtimes, children often have had more trouble with bedtime during this stressful period. So try to keep a normal nighttime routine, especially for younger children. Maybe put a family picture by their bad for extra love until the morning. Bedtimes can shift some for older children and teens, but it’s a good idea to keep it in a reasonable range. So, their sleep wake cycle isn’t thrown off. I have heard of this Vampires syndrome where kids are up much of the night and they’re going to bed somewhere around 4 or 5 in the morning and sleeping a lot of the day, so that that’s really disruptive to them as disruptive to the family When you’re trying to sleep, because you have to work the next day. You may hear kids, you know, moving around the house, it 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning, and that’s absolutely not ideal.
Some ways you can help manage their emotions and behavior is particularly important for kids to have that lower frustration tolerance and, and maybe more externalizing in their emotions, So redirect that negative behavior. Sometimes kids misbehave because they’re bored or they. They don’t know what to do. So kind of finding other things for them to do that are more positive and more adaptive.
Creative play, so suggest your children.
Draw pictures of ways Your family staying safe, um, and really direct your, your attention, toward positive behaviors. Reinforcing those good behaviors, it’s a really powerful tool. So notice good behavior. Any good behavior, even.
You put your shoes on without me, you know, telling you, I think that’s great, you put them on. So, so well and quietly, if your child has ADHD and does everything, you know, quite loudly point that out.
Point out what you see that you like, that is positive phrasing success, and even praising really good tris, that’s great using rewards and privileges to reinforce good behavior.
So getting along with a sibling, completing school assignments, you know, those kind of even smaller things, some parents will say they both are supposed to complete school assignments. Absolutely, but that may not, that may not necessarily be a given during a heightened time of stress.
And know when not to respond you can do something called planned ignoring. Some people called intentional ignoring ignoring bad behavior can be a really effective way of discovering discouraging children from engaging in that.
Using timeouts appropriately for the right each, one minute per year of age is usually a good guide, praising them when they’re done and just, you know, this, this tool obviously works best for younger children.
And then using a special time in, I like to, I love having a special time, and even with everyone home together, 24 7, really set aside some special time with each child, can even be 5 or 10 minutes. That’s really powerful, and something kids really look forward to. Let your child choose the activity, even if it’s just talking with, with your team, about their day, alone, one-on-one. That means a lot to your child, keeping cell phones off on silent during that time, so neither of you get distracted.
And I love this, this graphic. So, you know. So I stepped away for like NaN, and that was the beginning of every parenting horror story ever. And that was me when my child mixed to toxic chemicals while I was teaching them how to clean the bathroom. So, that was NaN.
And, uh, I’m sure many of you have your own. And I wanted to stop here and open up for questions.
OK, sorry, I had to unmute myself there for just a moment, Thank you.
OK, I’m ready to launch into some questions here.
Let me get just bear with me one second till I get my notes up.
So, how can we have effective communication and our families so parents don’t feel like they’re shouting at kids in their bedrooms. Or if we’re having a lot of arguments and conflict with our kids, could you talk about that a little bit? Because I can’t believe that’s not happening. Yeah, it’s definitely happening. And I hear it a lot. Even in my own home, we’ve had a lot of increase conflict, everyone’s home, so how can you not? You have multiple personalities and multiple needs all in one household. And everyone’s kids are all competing for attention, and parents are pulled in, many, many different directions, but the whole family cycle is off, so, you know, and I guarantee if you’re having an argument with somebody in your family, you’ve probably had that same argument many, many times before. So, a couple of things that the parents can do.
Try to keep communication, open and frequent. Make, use clear, really honest language of what your expectations are, what the rules are. Print them up, you know? Make a kind of family house rules list of when cell phones have to go off. Or how long people can have cell phones for. That seems to have been the biggest one I’ve heard about in these past few months.
Try to use I statements. So they’re not nearly as accusatory is saying, or you have your phone, or you do this, so, making an I statement.
It’s more fact based. So it’s not putting assumptions on a person’s behavior or the motives behind a person’s behavior.
Try to be an active listener, you know, a lot, it’s OK if your kids disagree with you. And listen to that, maybe they have some of a valid nugget that you’re able to kind of OK. Well, I’m willing to take that into consideration and maybe we can collaborate and alter the family was a little bit, too.
So you get your needs met, but we get ours or has met as well as the parents Try to avoid blaming that that kind of blaming language is really unhelpful and it immediately puts the other person on the defensive.
I loved setting up frequent family meetings. You know, if you want to pick a date and time that works for everybody every week, that’s fine. Let people know in advance when the family meeting is, so, you know, you’re not shouting to come to the family meeting.
and getting angry when you hear your child say:
“in a minute”, Wait to have the communications until everyone is ready.
If you, as the parent or caregiver have done something that wasn’t necessarily right, and maybe your team pointed that out to you, it’s OK to apologize if that’s warranted, it’s kids feel validated that way. They feel heard, and they feel that they are respected by their parent, and that really does build that mutual respect.
And before responding, to, reflect and pause on what your child said. It reflects the fog. And what we want to say really feel infuriated as a parent, you might say something that could be damaging can’t go outside for a minute. It’s OK to say I’m I’m having some thoughts that I really don’t want to express right now, so I’m going to go outside and calmed down. And then I’ll be able to talk to you more calmly.
That’s way better than no, getting into kinda the blaming, and the yelling and shouting.
And if, if he was the parent, and then I’ll be done with it for the next question. If you don’t think that the person you’re talking to, whether it’s your partner or your child is really listening with active intent, then you are really just in this battle mode, So it’s OK to say, I don’t feel like you’re listening to me, or bringing your attention the most of your attention that I see now when you are ready, let me know, we will have this discussion.
Well, good luck with that. Yeah.
That’s, that’s a toughie, I do like the whole family meeting thing, though, it gives everybody kind of an equal chance to have an opinion and be listened to and, and let the time that they want to take to do that, to be respected. So I think that’s a good thing. In almost any circumstance, actually.
OK, I have a question here that’s, um, that’s a bit lengthy, so I need to paraphrase it a little bit. So we’re talking here about a child, who’s nine years old.
And basically, there’s multiple diagnoses here is ODD. There’s anxiety, dysgraphia. There’s this whole bunch of stuff. But what the mom is saying is that there’s no supports from school in order to get. There was a there was illegal’s element, settlement, and they’ve agreed to class this child only as other health impaired, struggling with school work. I guess the bottom line here is that she’s not sure how to how to handle the child. He’s very needy, will not know, even know he doesn’t participate, doesn’t respect boundaries. You know, there’s so much going on here. I think this is a really tough question to answer or to consider in this environment, but I saw it. I would, you know, I thought I would make a stab that you’re trying to just kind of talk about this.
Would you care to comment on that?
Sure, and I, I did, um, I have a number of resources in here.
And, for example, their lifeline is in any county by dialing 211, that really gets you some support for food, or housing mental health for, for legal needs, even family utilities.
So 211 is actually a nice resource that not a lot of parents know about the crisis text line. So you can text connect to 701741.
That will connect you with a live person, especially during periods of crisis.
So if this child has ODD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, where, you know, some of these Know, sometimes, though, that, that can create a lot of a crisis situation in the home. And I don’t know if it’s gotten to that extent, but that is another option and resource for certain families.
And a lot of therapists have have a switch there, platforms to remote telehealth or therapy. So psychology today has a number of providers who are conducting telehealth sessions remotely, and that it’s nice, you don’t have to leave your house. You and your child could participate. If that’s deemed appropriate by the therapist, a child is old enough to participate in herself, they will certainly attempt to do that.
I was just going to say the mom just contributed another piece of information, and she said that we have home in home therapy now through the state.
So, but maybe we’ll see some. Yeah, maybe there’ll be some improvement with this, but it sounds like it’s really difficult situation to kind of wrap your head around. And, if the parents can, certainly, if they’re getting in home therapy, they can certainly work with the CMO, and perhaps get some services through an organization like informed care.
Or they will, they will come out to the home and assess the situation, interview the family, do an evaluation, be able to set up services in the home.
So, so, hopefully, so, that’s a good move, Yeah.
Yeah, so, a question about Coville specifically, so, does, this woman is saying that my mom died from Koven. She’s in her eighties and not in good health. It has been particularly difficult, because we could not visit her. So, we’re looking for suggestions that you may have how to manage this with the grandkids who are aged from 7 to 15.
Any comments would be appreciated, so can you help out there at all?
I’m so, sorry to that individual that that has been a really traumatic consequence of this time where people are getting sick and they’re in the hospital or in a nursing home and cannot have any visitors And they’re really alone And then and then, you know the stress and grief of losing an individual to covet.
No, we have we have lost I think up to 120,000 individuals in the United States as of today from covert, and the reality is is unfortunately most of them have died alone Which is not something that we would ever want for our loved one Hmm? Hmm, hmm?
It’s it’s um, You know, the rituals that we would typically rely on to say goodbye, like, having funerals are sheva or no visiting a loved one in the hospital or not kind of happening right now.
And people are really experiencing this collective gref.
So, and for kids, that’s really difficult because the constructive death and loss is somewhat interrupted to two degree by not having that closure by not having the funeral by not having that, that process to go through.
Um, and, and there’s a couple.
A couple of strategies, that, you know, kids can, can, can use, or parents can use for their kids.
Um, so New York University, Land Goan actually put out a really nice piece on their news hub, and I loved it, I can, I can upload it.
So, help, you know, under normal circumstances. You know, as painful as that experiences of death. It can be helpful to remember.
Your loved one, that’s kind of a universal experience, of remembering loved ones.
So, And kids just all deal to deal differently in the way they respond to death.
So, really, you kinda have to just meet the needs of your child and whatever they’re feeling. Let them have a chance to talk about the person who died and their feelings about the death kind of normalized that experience.
Sadness and longing are somewhat easy emotions to validate, but other emotions that can come out and and do or, like anger.
Including at the person who died because I didn’t get say goodbye to grandma, grandpa so that that’s really difficult and challenging. But it’s still just equally as important. So young kids may need some explanation about what that means first.
But, it is important to convey that it is a permanent state and that people can’t come back from it.
And it’s somewhat, some, Some research has indicated that it’s more, it’s preferable, perhaps, in the younger ages to use the word death instead of the person that have died rather than other language. Like, like, passed away, so using death or died, as opposed to passed away, because that really leave some room for confusion about what happened. OK, I will post that on the blog afterwards. Oh, that’s great, Thank you, thank you. Any suggestions for walking the line between?
Letting yourself off the hook and ignoring responsibilities?
I think they’re really Situation specific.
So, And that’s, that’s a tough question to answer, and I guess the answer is somewhat. It depends.
No, ignoring certain behaviors, if every behavior serves a function for kids and for adults, when I procrastinate, something, it’s serving some function either, I want to do something else that’s more enjoyable or, I feel that the thing I’m procrastinating is too daunting and I don’t maybe have confidence in myself, that I can do it unconsciously or consciously. Every behavior has some sort of function behind it. So, I think trying to look at things that way is, you know, why is my child doing that?
Or, why am I doing something as a parent?
So, so, looking at it from that perspective is my child meeting to get something out of this right now.
And is it just that the behavior is kind of that the child understands what the rule is? So, maybe the child whining about something or you know, asking the same question over and over that’s OK to ignore if you’re confident that you have explained it. You’ve been clear in your language.
It’s OK to say I am not answering that question anymore, and I’m going to, I will, I will talk to you. about something else, I am not going to talk about this specific subject again.
It’s kind of been asked and answered then, so you’re done.
Yeah, and I think it’s, it’s just a little, it’s a specific, but thinking about a person’s behavior, and what the function is behind, it sometimes helps unlock the hmm, hmm, hmm, hmm. A lot of use is the key to unlock understanding you know, when to use that planting more ignoring and when to let yourself off the hook know some things.
It’s like, OK, well, tonight, I’m just not going to, um, some of the rules are just gonna go out the window tonight and that’s OK. And you can even communicate that to your child. You can say, like, I had a really difficult day tonight. It’s OK. If you guys want to use screen’s a little bit longer tonight, we’re not going to stick to the rule.
It’s OK once in a while to alter the rules, but generally trying to be as consistent as possible is preferred, and especially if you have a child who really thrives on consistency and and rules and rituals and kind of a meeting that planned routine. So, that, specifically, talking about kids who may be on the autism spectrum, having that plan routine is really important.
For some kids on the spectrum, it is really not wise to deviate change.
Yeah, OK. Thank you. Unconcerned that my grandchild who was struggling with school refusal issues before this pandemic will be worse once school resumes.
Especially if he has to wear a mask score, you know, won’t be able to sit close to his friends like the kinds of things that are a possibility when school re-opens.
Any thoughts about that? Any suggestions?
Yeah, that’s, that has been a difficult one, because even with school refusal, often, those kids struggle with social anxiety, or they could be experiencing bullying or rejection. It may not be active bullying. It may just be social rejection, which is a more passive type of bullying experience. And those kids have really struggled.
Because when you have a child with anxiety, their number one desires to avoid that, which causes them anxiety. So, I’m anxious about going to the doctor and getting a shot, so I, I want to avoid going to the doctor. And the parent who then says, OK, well, we don’t not that. A parent would say, OK, we don’t go to the doctor. This is just an example, really reinforces that, anxiety, and reinforce for the next time you try to get your child to the doctor, is going to be a huge mountain to climb. And that’s really not what you want to do, and get that population, the kids with social anxiety, and the kids with school refusal.
They are really vulnerable population with now having been out of the school system for what’s going to be six months.
So, you know, talking about, you know, slowly brushing that topic of well, school is going to start in September, and if the child asks, well, maybe it won’t, or maybe we won’t go back, or maybe there’ll be another wave and I won’t have to go back kind of reiterating that no school will start in September because getting them used to it. That may not happen. Yes, there could be another wave.
And there’s a lot of no unknowns in all of this, but letting, informing your child that the, the, the goal of, of, of the education of the educators is to have the children back in school in September.
So, you know, kind of not giving into this, well, maybe it won’t, and not not letting things be nebulous, it does turn out that kids back to school will then know that is that is something we just can’t know. But letting them know that that is the plan. For those parents, they can certainly reach out to the child study team and express their concerns. And and some schools may have that flexibility to do something called for scheduling. Not they may not be perfect may not be exactly what you want. Not like, you know, ordering from a menu and getting exactly what you want.
But you as a parent may be able to, if the child does have some diagnosis of, say, social anxiety, or something else that’s leading to the school refusal. Preferred scheduling is something where you can designate maybe a preferred peer, someone your child feels comfortable with, will, will have a more successful school experience.
Knowing that that child is going to be in my, my math, in my, in my lunch period. Knowing that there’s some bright spots throughout the day, but that that is going to be a challenge for schools, because, yeah, I imagine, so, Yeah.
Could you talk about some opportunities for life skills, learning for kids in this environment?
Could I Sure.
So, um, couple of things that I’ve, I’ve heard parents are really successful with and teaching their kids. So for kids who are maybe more. More affected by an autism spectrum disorder. So that may be, you know, spending some time where you’re kind of, like, I said in the beginning, wearing multiple hats, you’re pulling in the role for behavior therapist. So you may be the BCBS in the home with your child and, you know, have scheduled like behavior time. So today we’re gonna practice teeth brushing.
So learning like hygiene skills or teaching them how to prepare food and not just grabbing snacks that are out of the pantry or out of the drawer bin where there’s no yogurt or something that’s already prepared, but just readily available, rather. But just really teaching them how to prepare food, make a simple sandwich. It, peanut butter and jelly sandwich, something that they can do themselves helping, kids kind of develop in a safe way.
Some, some choices for themselves. Help them develop this menu of options. You know. a lot of parents have been baking or teaching your child home safety how to use the oven.
You know, how to use the toilet.
one thing, the wrong kind of chemical, know, help them think through ordering food, like when you have dinner one night and at the restaurant, and help them learn. Think through and practice. ordering food in a restaurant, letting them really practice these skills. So when they’re back out, they will generalize those skills to other. Other scenarios. So, and there’s a lot of really good sites out there that are providing life skills learning options for, particularly for kids who are on the spectrum. But, you know, this works for kids of all ages.
Kids can really take opportunity to develop a sense of agency, of who they are and what they’re able to do. And that’s one of the benefits, is, it really does help improve their self, their self-esteem and their, their, their self view.
And those are really, truly a very appropriate things for kids to learn. You know, whether it’s baking cookies or is it, you know, again, making a sandwich, being able to do something for themselves. And then you call that, which leads me, Oh, sorry.
Then, you could, you know, add on top of it, you know, we’re going to make cookies and then, that social component, we’re going to deliver them to your friends’ houses. You can pick three friends in your neighborhood and get in the car, have them packaged up the other parents, OK with it Like, come over and socially distance and just drop the cookies off or stay in the car if the other parents and comfortable with getting out, giving them a bit of a social opportunity as well.
So, yeah, brawn benefit.
OK, great idea. We’ve gone, let’s say, I think we have time for one more here. Um, as a grandmother, I’ve noticed that kids want their parents to do stuff with them all the time. They don’t seem to know how to entertain themselves these days.
The shut down situation seems to have made this much worse.
And, any suggestions on on how to handle that, that situation?
Well, that’s a problem that was happening before Cove.
At night, she said yes, yep, because this, this whole, I did not grow up with a cell phone when I was growing up. Cell phones were still kinda big, giant. And usually only confined to the car for certain people like doctors.
So we were not on screens all the time. But now, I mean, kids are. And I see six year olds and seven year olds with smart phones, and they are constantly on them.
So, that skill of being able to manage one time effectively and age appropriately, so we don’t expect a four year old to and to entertain him or herself for an hour.
But it is a really hard thing for kids to do because they’re so reliant on a device for entertainment.
So a lot of the skills of working out arguments and coming up with games and coming up with new rules for games are kind of going by the wayside for a lot of individuals and in this generation. And we could, as social psychologists, with the long term, effects of that, are gonna be. But, I can empathize with his grandmother who says, You know, that the kidney kind of constant entertainment and where are we going? And there is this whole culture of being entertained and today, we’re going to desert today. We’re going to, the baths place or The Trampoline. Playful, Always this. Go go, go, so that, that is one benefit that I have actually liked from, from these past three months of, you can’t go anywhere, so let’s figure out ways to entertain yourself. So, bringing out old school board games and dusting off, monopoly or scrabble.
So maybe picking things that have some sort of hidden educational benefit, like Scrabble, where they’re actually kinda warm spell and letter recognition and those kinds of things. And I think it’s super important to golden family downtime for everybody.
And every individual of the family gets, it has to have their own space.
That is going to help reduce the risk of parent burnout, you know, mom or dad, they get to go to their own pinups space and just have a couple of moments and it can be scheduled throughout the day. So, you know, if it is so hard for kids, entertain themselves, Maybe it’s four blocks. A day of just 10 minutes block where, OK, now we’re all going to go have quiet time.
And, and that doesn’t mean that someone’s with you telling you, You know, what are we going to do next or how are we going to play?
I think that’s scheduled downtime throughout. The day is, was really helpful. And you can start small and build it up.
It’s interesting, because I have another, I said, That was the last question, but I’m gonna jump to one more, because it’s kind of a follow up to that.
So, I have a single parent with three kids, the age 6 to 10, And the parent is saying, I’m exhausted, and I’m asleep soon, after the kids are in bed, how do I carve out time for myself?
So, that’s actually a great point, based on what you were just talking about, and so, schedule that downtime, and everybody gets to go to the coroners and and, you know, be separated for a little bit mm. The mom, that isn’t the time. We then you map the floor and do the dishes.
Maybe that’s the time where you actually get your 20 minutes or whatever It is, right? You almost have to like make a date with yourself.
So some people, look at exercise, is something, well, they scheduled on their calendar, so they don’t let other work meetings, or other things interfere with it. That’s really important to them, and that’s their special time.
Other people just need time to sit and meditate.
That’s perfect. But kind of block it out in your calendar. You can schedule allots scheduled on your phone so you know this is something you can look forward to. It’s like a treat to yourself and you deserve it. It is self care and letting your kids know, build it into the schedule, put it up visually.
You know, call it whatever you want, but.
You know, and if and if and that is OK, but it’s OK to let things go right? Like you said, you know don’t worry about doing the dishes or I can pull the basket of laundry right now.
That’s OK, your self care time is more important.
OK, I think We’ll end it here.
Doctor …, thank you so much, that was a really good presentation, and it is a troubling time that we’re in right now and frustrating. So, you, you provided some good answers. So much, appreciate it, Thank you.
OK, thank you all for joining us on our webinar for Parental Burnout, The in the Face of Covert 19. There is an exit survey, which we need everyone attending to fill out. The webinar blog is open now and available for the next seven days on the NJ CTAS website, for any additional questions that were not covered in tonight’s presentation. That website is WWW dot N J C T S dot org. Also, an archived recording of tonight’s webinar will be posted to our website. Our next scheduled presentation is Suicide Prevention and is being presented by Wendy … and Maureen Brogan, and is scheduled for September 30th, 2020. This ends tonight’s webinar. Thank you, doctor Theobald, for your presentations. And thank you, everyone, for attending. Goodnight.